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SUMMARY

Christy-Faith and Dr. Kathy Koch explore the importance of understanding children’s learning styles, the detrimental effects of perfectionism, and the debate between gentle and authoritarian parenting styles. The conversation emphasizes the need for resilience and character development in children, as well as the significance of motivation and valuing learning over grades. 

TAKE-AWAYS

• Perfectionism can stem from pride and emotional immaturity.
• Children need to struggle to appreciate their victories.
• The goal of parenting is to cultivate beautiful human beings.

ABOUT TODAY’S GUEST

Dr. Kathy Koch (“cook”) is the Founder of Celebrate Kids. She has spoken to thousands of parents, teachers, and children in over 25 countries. Kirk Cameron chose her as an expert in two recent documentaries and she is also a popular guest on many radio talk shows and podcasts. She podcasts at “Facing the Dark” and she is the author of seven books published by Moody. Dr. Kathy earned a PhD in reading and educational psychology from Purdue University. 

Find Dr. Kathy Koch here: 

• Website: https://CelebrateKids.com 
• Facebook: https://facebook.com/CelebrateKidsInc

SHOW SPONSORS

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Kathy Koch: It's valuable to kinda step back. What toys do they play with? What do they do when they get into trouble? What subject matter do they do well at? When they do talk, what do they talk about?

When they ask questions, what do they ask about? These are some ways that we can figure it out.

Christy-Faith: Welcome to the Christy-Faith Show where we share game changing ideas with intentional parents like you. I'm your host, Christy Faith, experienced educational adviser and homeschool enthusiast. Together, we'll explore ways to enrich and transform both your life and the lives of your children. Welcome back to part 2. In this episode, we'll continue delving deeper into game changing ideas for intentional parents like you.

So grab your coffee, find a comfy spot, and let's dive right in. Yes. And you also mention in your writing that we can paralyze our kids' intelligence. And and what's fascinating to me is at our center, we had a learning center where we, educated the children of a listers and billionaires in Los Angeles. And these parents would have their kids in extremely rigorous private schools and then we were hired to they would have diagnosed learning disabilities and we were hired basically to do a private IEP and execute the private IEP in our center.

And I remember seeing these kids who hated being at school just to come to our center to have to work on stuff that, honestly, we could get it better, but it's never gonna be right. Okay. So let me give you an example. The kid was struggling in math. Okay?

And what did he have to do? He had to come and come to our center and get math tutoring and math remediation and then do the summer math to make sure that he's ready for the next grade and and this and that and the other. And sometimes I would just think this is part of my awakening in my own journey is can we just let this kid go outside? Like, he's not gonna be a doctor. We know this.

We know this. And it really it hurt my soul to see childhoods being robbed with this intensive focus on all of their weaknesses. I I feel like, and I want you guys to hear that that's listening. We have a society that obsesses over our children's weaknesses. And this is why I love what you do, Kathy.

I'm so inspired because you are about celebrating their strengths and finding even later on vocations in their later life that honors this, how they're naturally inclined. Now if someone is very, what is it, the physical, right, it becomes a carpenter. Do they need math skills? Yes. Yes.

They do need math skills, but they don't need the math skills of someone that is in AP Calculus. Right? And so I think that's why this is so empowering for families. It kinda helps us step back and see the forest for the trees. Like, what's our main goal here?

Right? And and I want to talk to you about something that, and I hope this is I don't think this is self indulgent because I hear this all of the time. I talk about this in the first chapter of my book, how I am a recovering perfectionist. I was raised in the system. My sister had profound learning disabilities.

I was praised for how smart I was and my A's and I just, oh, we don't have to worry about Christy. And then the focus was on my sister. By the way, I have full permission to talk about her. We are best friends. And she loves she actually loves how her story empowers families.

And also, she loves how the juxtaposition between our childhoods can really open parents' minds to see, Okay, when there's a gifted child, this is what can happen. And we're all gifted. But when I when you're gifted in the way society tells you is worthy, right? You're it looks different. I want to clarify that very specifically.

But I want you to speak a little bit to perfectionism. I will say, I think in homeschooling, it is a major hurdle that parents do not know how to get over. When a child sees a problem, automatically sees this one's gonna be hard, and then the mom gets pushed back. She gets tantrums. She gets resistance.

Can you get to the root of that a little bit? Before we get to granular, like, how to help with perfectionism, would you just speak to what's going on emotionally first?

Dr. Kathy Koch: Those are great great observations and great questions. Perfectionism is often pride. It's often an emotional immaturity where they cannot process this idea that they can't get it right the first time. Sometimes laziness is very much rooted here. They don't wanna have to work hard.

Nowadays, if we have allowed our young children on devices, they are absolutely going to lean toward perfectionism because everything on the phone is so easy. You can win any game you play. You exotic games you might lose. You know, there's you know, they beep and they buzz and they light up when you write. They give you a second chance.

So I really ache for today's kids who I think are even developing a perfectionistic perspective about life, maybe earlier than in the old days. It is a cousin to procrastination. If you and your kids struggle to get started or struggle to finish, that's almost always indicative of fear that they won't satisfy you. I I don't say this in a in a harsh way, but I'll be honest with you, Christy, that what I've noticed too is that sometimes what you say is unconditional love isn't. And what I mean by that is you might say to your kids, really, anything's okay, you know, do your best.

But when they miss 3 problems, you don't behave like it was their best. In fact, now was that your best? Or I'm, you know, maybe you imply or you even say, hey, I'm disappointed with the 3 mistakes. And again, you have a right to be disappointed with 3 mistakes if you have proof that with more effort, diligence, perseverance, they could have had a perfect score. So sometimes it's DNA, there sometimes it's DNA.

I was raised by, my dad was an engineer, a German engineer, and Dave and I are grateful for the high standards that we were raised with. And yet, if Dave were here with me, we would both say to you that my dad was not the kind of guy who liked, lazy mistakes. He was not panicked by true mistakes when he knows we had studied and tried hard, but we just made we missed the mark. So I think our background is a powerful thing there. Perfectionistic mom, that's the way you know how to be a mom.

But if you know it's killing you and if it's negating your relationship with your your kids, then we can step back and talk about what is it that we really want. We want joyful, grateful, content children who are able to focus, do well in the things that they've been called to do, and we need to back off sometimes.

Christy-Faith: Yes. Well, the gentle parenting movement isn't gonna like your answer. Well, here's the thing is, I am really big on teaching my children virtue, and you really can't have virtue without vices. And sometimes it's necessary to call things for what they are. But in today's society, that's a big parenting no no.

It's a big parenting no no to actually say, I'm seeing a little bit of laziness here. Can you speak to that? Because here's where I am in parenting is I I was raised in I was raised a Christian. My parents were not authoritarian, but I definitely, in my young parenting years, was involved with a lot of authoritarian, patriarchal parenting messages and made a lot of mistakes and have a lot of regrets with my firstborn child. And then, you know, would start reading books and then would read stuff on gentle parenting like way, you know, the early gentle parenting stuff and I'm like, this doesn't align.

This doesn't really align with with my beliefs and my values. And I do think that there are perspectives out there where there is a balance here and I want to ask you about this and I want to go there. What is your view on gentle parenting? And the reason why I want to ask you is because you seek to for families to have connection and you seek for children to be honored and celebrated for who they are and how they were created. So with knowing that about you, what is your view of gentle parenting?

Dr. Kathy Koch: I'm a 150,000,000 percent against it. How's that? I think it's the cheap way out. I think parents need to be strong enough to say no and yes. No to the no things, yes to the yes things.

I think we have to expect our kids to grow and mature. They don't know what they're capable of. Gentle parenting can cause them to be so lazy and they will never develop who they could have been. We are really expected by our creator, the one who put the family together, to cause our children to become who they were created to be. And so, no, sit down and try again.

It's unacceptable work. I think we've raised them to have responsibilities at home. You can call them chores. I like the word responsibility. I think we raise them up to understand what is a fair expectation.

Here's the evidence. I have pictures from the last two assignments in my phone. Let me remind you of how well you did. Now do you see today's I think you hurried today because your brother, you know, was finished early, and he's already outside playing. And you made, an inappropriate choice, and we're not putting up with this.

So go try again. So I I think we need to be strong and and forceful with the right attitude. If I could put it that way, we would never scare our kids. But gentle parenting, I wrote I wrote the book Resilient Kids partly because we have to let them struggle, and we have to let them grow through the struggle or they'll be so weak. So I'd love to hear your take on it.

I haven't thought about that in a while, so I hope my answer is is accurate. I am I will tell you that it is dangerous. It is it is causing mental health problems in our children because they don't know who they are, and they can't accept any feedback. And life is full of opportunities to expect feedback, and that's how we grow up.

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Yes. Well and the thesis is all misbehavior is an unmet need. What would you say to that?

Dr. Kathy Koch: There may be something right about that. I've written about the 5 core needs that I think children have, but I don't think that even if it's unmet need, that doesn't mean that we're gentle in the solution of that, I guess, is what would be confusing for me. I just wrote my newest book is on character. My newest book is on biblical character and I wrote it because I'm really concerned about the lack of character in adults. Frankly, if I can go there and the lack of training for character in our children, I'm not a fan of training for obedience obedience if we train for obedience, we might not get it, but if we train don't tell and yell but train for character we get both character and obedience because Christy all disobedience is rooted in unhealthy character.

Okay arguing is rooted in the qualities of selfishness self centeredness pride and a lack of flexibility. Whining behavior. Do any of you have a 34 year old? They just have that voice, and they just whine all day long, or maybe even a 7 year old or a 9 year old, and they love to whine to get the buttons pushed so that you give them another cookie. Whining is self centered and selfishness and pride and a lack of flexibility and and other things.

There's just so much I could say about that. So I'm a big believer in the training up of character and virtues. That's our job. And and we can do that in our homeschool day, and we do it after the homeschool day has ended, if you want to call it that. We can we can do this better.

Christy-Faith: The whole point is we want kids who are resilient. And how do we foster that in our children? And resiliency is being able to handle hardship. Honestly, what is resiliency? It's when life gets hard, can you still stand?

Right? And life is really hard. And so I have concerns, very many concerns about the gentle parenting movement and then I've also seen the results of authoritarian, just abusive parenting as well. I went to a Christian liberal arts college and let me tell you, some of those kids who were raised in those households, they went crazy. They, you know, sexual behaviors, drinking, all of that.

This was at a very conservative Christian liberal arts undergraduate institution. And so I think it's really hard, especially for people of the Christian faith nowadays, to navigate this parenting landscape because we maybe we were raised in a more abusive way, and we want something different, but we don't know what that different looks like. And so that's really exciting. Can you speak any any other wisdom to raising resilient kids?

Dr. Kathy Koch: One thing that you were you were implying, we have to let them struggle and be the victory or have the victory at the end. So one of the things that I think is really tempting for parents, you know, if your kid is at the breakfast bar, working on a problem and they're moaning and they're groaning and they're sweating and they're, mommy, it's so hard, then it's so easy to go up and just rescue them in that moment. I would actually say leave the room if you can safely do that and let them struggle through it. And and when they do well on their handwriting or their memorization or their poetry or whatever they're doing when they do well, then you get to say, look at how you benefited from staying the course and doing the hard work and you celebrate their victory. If you steal the victory, they won't learn that the the Valley experience is worth it.

Okay? So things are gonna be hard. The English language makes no sense. You're gonna challenge them daily with behavior, motivation, academic, artistic, musical, athletic pursuits. You know, obviously eat right, you know, drink enough water, sleep enough, have great family dynamics.

When your kids struggle, two things, let them struggle and have their own victory and then celebrate them. And let them know if they are the cause of the struggle. There's cause effect relationships. If you don't sleep, you're tired and cranky, and this is the result. If you if you forget that the coop has a poetry contest and you were gonna enter and today was the last day to enter, that's not new.

Don't be lame than me. I'm not. No. You're capable as a 14 year old of managing your schedule. We've talked about it.

You were gonna go into class and sign right up and you forgot, and I am so sorry that you have disappointed yourself. So this is hard for parents. You don't want your kids disappointed, but you guys, you cannot own something that is theirs to own because they have to learn sometimes the hard way that decisions they make result in other things that happen. So I hope that comes clear again, wrote a whole book on it. It's fragile children are not well.

We have got to help kids learn from their own struggle, walk out of the valleys, figure out how to make things easier when they can, but don't don't helicopter them. Don't don't quickly rescue it. All to it might rescue the day. Like, if you quickly rescue them today, you'll have a better day. Right?

You'll feel like, oh, I can sit down with a cup of coffee because my kid has stopped whining. So I get it. On that one day, it feels like you did the right thing. But I'm gonna say to you with integrity that if you continue that pattern of always rescuing them so that you stay happy, over dependent upon you, and they're never gonna have confidence in themselves. And this is actually gonna hurt them and hurt you and the relationship you have with that kid.

Yeah. Well, and the thing that

Christy-Faith: we talk a lot about resilience in kids, but let's take a minute to unpack the word fragile because I think everybody wants resilience or wanna raise a resilient kid, but I don't think people actually define for themselves what fragile looks like. And it's important to do because I think it's not a bad thing. I have 4 kids if I look and I go, you know what? I'm a little worried about the resilience with this one right now. She's a little blown by by the winds, blown by the wind, not really in solid ground.

So I'm now reminded of myself. So, of course, as I mentioned, my parents did the best they could, you know. I grew up in I have wonderful parents, still married. They're great. But we, you know, we had some hard times growing up and my sister had a hard time learning and and I the message definitely was Christy does great in school, you know, you just do that.

And but looking back, Kathy, and this is an epiphany for today, I was extremely fragile. My whether I got an a and it was at that point, it wasn't even an A. It had to be like 97% or above. And if I didn't get that, it would ruin a day, a week. I thought I thought my entire future was going to be a dumpster fire now.

I wasn't going to get into a good college. But you know what? That connection that I made today is, wow, how fragile I was. Now, let's let's flip that because I I have done a lot of healing in my life, a lot of I've had a lot of beautiful therapists who have helped me. And I remember when I was applying to graduate schools and, you know, no family helped financially.

So I had to, you know, be able to get scholarships and things like that. And I remember taking the GRE to get into graduate school, and I studied so hard. And I remember turning in that test, finishing it. It was paper, but I back in the day, that's how old I am. They're not paper anymore.

And I remember thinking to myself, I could not have tried harder. What will come will come. I could not have tried harder on this. And you know what? I didn't obsess over it for a week.

I mean, yes, I was. I wanted to go to graduate school. I got into graduate school, right? But I'm just looking back on that shift in the growth and that there is hope for us. If your kid really struggles with perfectionism, if you do yourself, I think homeschool moms struggle with it because we are the type that takes, we don't, we do it.

We get it done. When someone else can't, we get it done. So I think we are a little bit bent towards perfectionism and also the pressure from society to not mess this up. All eyes are on us, especially if you're the 1st person in your family doing the homeschooling, like everybody's looking at you like, I wonder how your kids are gonna turn out. It's a lot of pressure because the outward world is focused on the result.

Did you get an A in homeschooling? And we can do that to ourselves. And that's not the journey. The journey is we are cultivating beautiful human beings. That's our job.

Our job is way bigger than getting an A on that math test or getting all the spelling words right. It's encouraging that you say you're an awful speller. I think a lot of women are going to be encouraged by hearing that today. Last question. Motivation.

Motivation. I don't even wanna say anything else. I just want you to say what you think needs to women need to hear about their child's motivation. The show will resume in just a minute. But first, I wanna share with you an incredible resource that is totally free to homeschooling families everywhere.

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Dr. Kathy Koch: The first thing I'll say is that every child is motivated. So there's no such thing as a non motivated child, which makes the question, how do I motivate my kid, the wrong question. I know you've asked it. I'm not shaming you. This is very normal that we don't understand this.

Some of you have children motivated to be apathetic, and it's very easy to be good at that. Some of you have kids motivated to act out to get your attention because you just affirmed a sister and now they're jealous and they want you to notice them, and so they act in appropriately so they they'll hear you say their name. Everybody's motivated. So it's how do I motivate them in the right direction? And there's 3 things the research says are very clear.

1, they have to have value. They have to believe they have value. If your kids don't think they matter, nothing matters. So what messages have you spoken over them and into them about the fact that they have value? Man, I'm so glad, Elizabeth, that you were created and that you're my daughter and that you're 7 today.

I can't wait to see what the future holds. You are special to me. Secondly, they have to value learning. Motivated kids have to value learning, not grades. One of the freedom of homeschooling is you don't have to grade.

Now some of you might live in a state where you have to do some reports, and I get that, but grades are so false. And you need to parent for the big picture, 12 years, right? You picture you parent for the big picture until they're 18, and then you'll never not be a parent. The noun parent will always be your noun, and so you have to parent for the big picture, not just let's have a good week. So, they have to value learning.

Are they curious? Do you celebrate your own learning? Have you talked with them at lunch or dinner about what you discovered that day when you were reading a book to prepare for a lesson? You're like, I never knew this about Ferris wheels. Just tell them something interesting that they would find fascinating.

And then 3rd, they have to believe in their future. And, Christy, this is hard because the future looks bleak. You know, we we know about the world falling apart as it falls apart live in front of us on our screens, And there are kids who have said to me, I I don't think I want to go up, and I'm not convinced God is good because look at all of the difficult things that are going on. And I believe God is good because his word declares that he's good, and I've lived long enough with him to say that he has been good to me. But I understand why people without that faith journey might question that.

So do your kids believe in their future? Do you talk optimistically about their future? Not college. They don't all have to go. I believe kids should be college worthy, but I don't think they should all go.

And we need tradesmen, we need tech and tradespeople, we need plumbers, and electricians, and carpet layers, and contractors, and truck drivers, and grocery store workers, and I'm serious about this. And if you have a body smart, logic smart kid who's gonna change the world by being a great electrician, go for it. I couldn't pass an electrician's exam to save my life. I tell people all the time, get a job that can't be outsourced to India. So it can't be about talking all the time about your alma mater in college.

It's about what are their values for their future. Do they hope to be married and moms and dads? Then that's what you talk about. So they have to value themselves, value learning, and value their future. And if those three things are consistently talked about in a positive vein and get your parents to also talk about those things with them, then motivation in the right direction is much more likely.

So again, it there's it's a complex issue, but I wanna encourage you to use your words well, to use the spirit of optimism well, and to help them believe in themselves. It's absolutely critical.

Christy-Faith: Hi there, podcast family. If our episodes bring a smile to your face, challenge you, or spark your thoughts, tap that like and subscribe button to stay connected with us. Also, we'd truly love to hear your voice in the comments. Your insights and stories are what makes this community special. And not only does it allow us to hear you, but your engagement helps us reach more people and spread our message.

So go ahead and don't be shy. Like, subscribe, and comment. Wow. Profound. What amazing words of wisdom.

Thank you so much for coming on the show today. Where can my audience find you, Kathy?

Dr. Kathy Koch: Well, first of all, thanks for having me. What a fun conversation. Our website is CelebrateKids.com. That's plural, CelebrateKids.com, and, you can find my podcast there, Facing the Dark. You can find my books there and other things that we provide.

We have online courses that some of your people might wanna enroll in. And then we are we are active on Facebook and Instagram at celebrate kids inc.

Christy-Faith: Great. And we will put all of that in the show notes. And I just realized I called you by your first name, and I wanna correct that. Doctor Kathy. I'm so sorry.

I I think you prefer doctor Kathy or do you prefer doctor Cook?

Dr. Kathy Koch: No. I go by doctor Kathy professionally partly because of the spelling of k o c h is, my last name is k o c h, pronounced Cook, and it's just confusing. So if people wanna Google my name to find everywhere I've been, it's kathykoch, but I go by doctor Kathy You.

Christy-Faith: Yes. Well, I am so honored. I don't know if the the audience doesn't know this because I didn't tell them, but I asked you months months ago and you I was so blessed that you had an opening in your schedule to come and have a conversation with little old me today. But I know the audience is gonna get tremendous value from today's conversation. Please, please go to celebrate kids.

Find out what type of smarts your kids have, and happy homeschooling to everybody. We'll see you on the next show.